Kim Deal on Her Coolest and Most Vulnerable Music
When it was announced that the Last Splash classic lineup of the Breeders (Kim Deal on rhythm guitar and vocals, twin sister Kelley on lead guitar, Josephine Wiggs on bass, and Jim Macpherson on drums) would be opening select dates in 2024 for Olivia Rodrigo, Deal was both shocked and gracious. “She just turned 21 on this last tour, so I’m amazed she’d heard of us at all,” says Deal.
Raised in Dayton, Ohio, Deal was living in Boston in 1986 when she answered an ad from a band looking for a bassist and backing vocalist. That band went on to become the hugely influential Pixies. But after five albums — and amid increasing internal strife with lead singer Black Francis — Deal split and formed the Breeders with Throwing Muses co-founder Tanya Donelly. Their debut album Pod, in 1990, was well received, but it wasn’t until 1993 when MTV began regularly airing the video for “Cannonball” that Deal became an alt-rock hero. The song grew into a post-grunge anthem, an abrasively catchy, groovy head-scratcher about being blown to hell, spitting in wishing wells, and cuckoo cannonballs.
Deal’s latest, Nobody Loves You More, the first full-length solo album to bear her name, is a collection of previously released 7” singles, along with new tracks assembled with the late engineer Steve Albini, shortly before his passing. It’s at turns lush, brash, hypnotic, and haunting, all the trademarks that have defined her musical journey, which she details in our latest Superlatives column. “I’m aware that people have written songs about me, like ‘Cool as Kim Deal,’ which is very nice,” she says. “But c’mon man, how cool can I possibly be? I live alone in Dayton.”
Best song to get an Olivia Rodrigo fan into your music
It’s gotta be “Cannonball.” Olivia is so personable. She has a section of the show where she thanked the Breeders. I’m paraphrasing, but she tracks her life as before and after she heard “Cannonball” for the first time. In front of all these screaming fans, she says “It blew my little brain apart.” I don’t know how younger people listen to music anymore, but they knew that song. I’m not sure if Olivia put it on a playlist. I can’t figure out how else they’d know it.
Song you’ve sat on the longest
Do I sit on them, or am I working on them? I have stuff that’s marinating. I had the title for, “Are You Mine?” for many years, but it took me a while to get the right kind of ’50s sound for it. “Wait In the Car” from All Nerve was a riff from what I call the East Los Breeders, which was Jose Medeles and the Mountain Battles/Title TK guys. We worked on that song in my basement in the middle of the aughts. Richard Presley from the East Los Breeders and I worked up that riff but didn’t go anywhere with it until Jim, Kelley and Josephine and me were downstairs trying stuff. I brought out the riff on my old cassette tape from the 4 track. That’s how that “old” riff got turned into a song on the All Nerve record. That was at least ten years of marinating. This new album is a collection of songs I’d recorded solo over the years as 7’’ records. I was flipping through these 45s, smoking, and realized it’d be nice to have these songs on an album, add some songs, and then walk away from the 7’’ solo series.
Song that reminds you of Steve Albini
“Iris,” because Steve introduced me to Breeders drummer Britt Walford. I asked Steve if he knew of any drummers, and he mentioned Britt. “Where Is My Mind” reminds me of Steve too, because he made those “ahh-oohs” at the top sound so beautiful. It made it very cinematic. I usually don’t like those reverb songs, but he did it so well. Another one is “Summerland” off the new record, with all the strings. You think of Steve as this guy who would never recommend doubling a vocal, or adding reverb to your voice like some schmuck. But, “Summerland” has viola, French horn, violin, and like ten different instruments. I had it in my head, the whole orchestra, and Steve helped shape it. He was so knowledgeable about all sorts of things, stuff you wouldn’t think the guy who says “Don’t double your vocal” would know.
He was someone who was good at their job and confident and super laid back. He was also really friendly and had everything prepared. All the headphone boxes were working, and there were always enough chairs for everyone. We were basically doing a film-style score, and I have to laugh thinking that Albini made all this happen. But, true to Albini, we did it once on tape and he said, “Sound all right to you, Kim?” I said yeah, and he said, “Well, there’s no reason to do it again. Thanks, everyone.”
Coolest bass line
“Biker Gone,” with Britt on drums. I was using the Ostrich tuning, which tunes the strings to the same note. “Venus in Furs” by Velvet Underground does it. They had a bad guitar so they tuned everything to low D. Why? Who the fuck knows why anybody would do that if they weren’t high. But, I really like that bass line. I’m primarily a rhythm-guitar player, and have been playing since I was 13. But I love playing bass. I also love recording, and microphone porn. I have some beautiful mics that I cherish.
Song you wish you could erase
Luckily, I don’t have them, but not because I’ve never written a bad song. I’ve written tons that were really cringey. The other day I was talking to Kelley and my friend. I brought up “Sinister Foxx” from Title TK and I just put my head in my hands and said, “I don’t know what I was thinking.” They both gasped and said, “We love that song!” That song is so weird to me, because it’s just me going, “Has anyone seen the iguana?” That’s all it is, just me asking if anyone has seen the iguana. Back in the day, if you bought pot, the dealer always had a terrarium with an iguana. My life was not going great at that point, but I think the song is hilarious. That was the only one I can think of that was just too weird. I have a lot of cringey stuff I don’t put on records, and you’re not going to hear them, thankfully. Maybe I’ll release a collection one day called The Cringe: Vol 1-5.
Most vulnerable song
“Gigantic” and “Drivin’ on 9” were my mom’s favorites. She passed, and mentally she was gone for a long time, but whenever I sing those songs they still hit me, to the point where sometimes it’s hard to get through them. My mom loved going to our shows, not just as support, but she absolutely adored it. As a dancer from the ’50s, she really liked stuff she could dance to.
Lyrics you associate with the worst time in your life
So many! Other people might do this, but I never think, “I’m feeling fantastic today. I’m gonna put my feelings down on paper.” It would be a cool challenge to try and write when I’m happy, but I never do it. I think “Cannonball” is happy, but it’s all about going to Hell. But, if I had to pick one song, it’d be “Bragging Party” from the Amps record. That whole period was rough, but that song in particular makes me sad.
Favorite stage names
I think Mrs. John Murphy is my fave. I used that name on the first two Pixies records, and I just thought it was cool to use a nom du disque. I was married to a guy named John Murphy, and at the time, I was working in a doctor’s office answering the phones. I’d get calls from older women — say this woman Ethel Goldstein would call, and I’d address her as Ethel. But she would say very seriously, “My name is not Ethel. It is Mrs. Robert Goldstein.” I thought it was hilarious, but I realized that for women of a certain age, it was considered disrespectful to just call a woman by her fucking name! You had to call them by their husband’s name, which blew my little mind.
I needed a name for the album, so I thought very properly, “My name is Mrs. John Murphy.” I also used Tammy and the Amps, which was originally going to be a solo record. See, I told you I’ve been trying to put out a solo record for years. Anyway, there were numerous players on the album, so I wanted to call it a band. I’d been using Tammy Ampersand around town for years. I’d walk into a bar and people would yell, “Tammy!” So, I dropped the Tammy and just called it the Amps.
Song that reminds you of Dayton
“Walking With a Killer,” and there’s a story behind it. It was one of the solo 7’’ songs I put out which ended up on a Breeders record. Growing up, we were surrounded by miles of cornfields, and they can be very creepy. We were in Huber Heights, which is a suburb of Dayton. There were little towns separated by cornfields, so I could walk to the store but have to pass by the creepy cornfields. It was dark, and suddenly these dudes in a van sped by and yelled out, “Rape victim!” It was so fucking creepy and weird. It was like I was asking for it, because I was taking space on the earth. There’s a lot of creepy places to walk around here, but that moment with the assholes in the van inspired the song.
Most joyful track
I like playing “Cannonball.” I think it’s still a lot of fun. I get to use my brother’s harmonica microphone and put it through distortion. I stole it from him, and plugging it into the Marshall and just letting loose is always a blast. The beat is fun and really zingy, because it goes back and forth. It’s really challenging to play, which is part of the fun. “Divine Hammer” is another fun one. I think it’s a really well-made pop song. The structure of it is good, and I worked really hard on it. The guy I got that guitar lead from worked with my brother at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. His name was Gary Lukens, and he was a really good player, and also friends with my dad. He’d come over and we’d jam together. He’s passed, and I always associate that song with him. I like to think of him hearing the song and his part on the radio and shouting, “That’s me!”
Weird meanings people have attributed to “Cannonball”
I’d always get, “I love that one about the bowling ball!” The “Cannonball” MTV video had a bowling ball that Spike Jonze threw down the street. Kim Gordon directed it, but Spike was helping out and threw the ball, tracking it on a skateboard. With “Gigantic,” people’s minds are just filthy. We don’t have to get into that. “Cannonball” really simply came from doing a cannonball off a diving board. It’s just the idea that we’re all going to hell, and I’m going with ya, making the biggest splash I can on the way. But now that the secret origin is out, no one’s gonna like it anymore.
Best Kelley Deal moment
All of them! Every time I’m on stage with her now I’m just dumbfounded at how amazing she is. She’s so on point, and she’s really worked on curating her pedals and her sound. She has great creative ideas, and every time we play now she comes in loud and strong. It didn’t always used to be like that, so I’m really proud of her. If I have an idea and sing it, she can sing it right back, which is difficult for some people to keep the melody in their head. There’s never any clashing if we’re trying out ideas or figuring out a certain part that isn’t working. You want someone to swoop in and take it to another level, and Kelley is great at that.
Correction: A previous version of this story mislabeled the band Deal is standing with in the photo.
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