Susan Sarandon says studios use social media follower counts and 'things that have nothing to do with the creative process' to cast movies now

Susan Sarandon reflects on her movie role, from her breakthrough in "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" to iconic roles like "Thelma & Louise."

Susan Sarandon has done cult classics. She's done crime dramas. She's done historical dramas, legal thrillers, beloved book adaptations, and even soap operas. But sometimes, she just wants to have a bit of breezy fun.

Enter her latest film, "The Fabulous Four," a star-studded romp set in Key West, Florida. Sarandon stars as Lou, a high-strung cat lady and cardiac surgeon who's tricked by two of her longtime friends (Sheryl Lee Ralph as a pot-growing grandma, and Megan Mullally as a perpetually horny singer) into making amends with her boyfriend-stealing former bestie (Bette Midler as a TikTok-obsessed recent widow) at a lavish mansion in Florida.

While filming wasn't exactly a vacation — Sarandon tells Business Insider shooting was "fast and furious" over a few weeks in Savannah in 2023 after production secured a waiver during the SAG-AFTRA and WGA strikes — the improv-heavy movie gave the quartet the chance to get loose and creative.

"It wasn't the kind of movie that you're really watching every single word. It's not a Billy Wilder film where he's there saying, 'Do not substitute that for that,'" Sarandon says. "But I think the fact that everybody was prepared and game and was funny made the whole thing a much more fun kind of shoot than we thought it would even be."

Sarandon seems to have struck the right balance: sometimes, you do a Serious Drama. And sometimes you do a scene where you use a Kegel ball as a slingshot.

For the latest interview in Business Insider's "Role Play" series, Sarandon looks back on filming "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" with pneumonia, embarrassing herself to audition for "Bull Durham," and reworking the "Thelma & Louise" script with Ridley Scott.

On Tim Curry convincing her to read for 'Rocky Horror' and being afraid to sing 'Happy Birthday'

Your earliest iconic role was in "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." What was your audition like for the movie?

Well, I didn't go to audition. I went because Tim Curry had become a friend of mine. I had a friend who was in the stage show in LA and I was out there doing other things, and I met him. And at that time, everyone had a crush on Tim Curry — men, women, animals. Everybody loved Tim Curry.

I just stopped by the place where they were holding the auditions to say hi. I wasn't thinking of auditioning. I had another project and Tim was like, "Oh my God, why don't you read?" I was like, "I can't really sing." And he said, "Well, just read."

Up until that time, they hadn't found a way to make Janet funny. The reading went well, but then they said, "Well, can you sing 'Happy Birthday?'"

It's so stupid to be so afraid of singing or humming. It was like a phobia that I had. I was really afraid, and I thought, well, I'll get over there, and they'll give me drugs or alcohol or something and that'll help. Of course, they didn't do that. I just apologized the entire time we were laying down the tracks. That's how it happened.

It didn't go over well with my agents at the time because I blew something else off, and nobody was really getting paid. It was a new director. Nobody in that cast had done a movie except me. They'd all done stage shows forever. It was just kind of something that I thought would really be fun, and that's how that happened.

So, no regrets turning down that other role for "Rocky Horror"?

No. When you are in this business, you kind of have to do it and then kiss it goodbye, just like your kids going off to college, and it'll either succeed or get thrown out. This one got thrown out. As soon as it opened, it closed. It never even made it out of LA. Nobody knew what the hell it was.

It sat dormant for quite a while, and two guys then started feeding it to gay art houses, and then it started to build. But initially "Rocky Horror" was panned and it was dropped, and that was the end of it.

It resurrected in a way that is hard to even explain, and I'm very happy that I did it. Probably that'll be my legacy at this point. Who knows? It'll be the thing that outlasts everything.

For such a fun and beloved movie, I remember reading the shoot was a little bit of a disaster, and that you caught pneumonia at some point. Is that right?

Yeah, I was working with pneumonia. We were filming in Bray Studio, which is a good hour outside of London. Didn't have any heat. It was January. The house that we were shooting in barely had a roof and it was raining on us. When I got pneumonia, they were setting up a screen around a heater where we could all go in, and then that burst into flames at one point, so that was the end of that.

It was difficult. I know it looks like we had so much fun, but we really didn't hang out that much or do any of that. It was just hard to get to. And we had a new director who had to work very quickly.

Richard O'Brien once said that when you filmed "Wild and Untamed Thing" in the pool, you were so sick you really should have been under medical supervision. What made you push through and finish filming?

Well, they didn't have any room to drop out. The doctor only said that I could continue shooting if they managed to heat me up and put me in a hot tub during lunch. There was no such thing anywhere nearby.

I was young and it wasn't like I was responsible for my kids at that time or anything. I just had a sense of duty to keep pushing. Then when I got back to the States, I did really collapse. It was mentally and physically not a healthy thing that I did.

I don't know, it turned out great, and I think it's iconic. Clearly, "Don't Dream It, Be It" means a lot to a lot of people.

Absolutely.

But don't work in a half-slip and bra where there's no heat. That's not a good idea.

On leaving her baby at home to audition for 'Bull Durham' and how Hollywood has gone corporate

"Bull Durham" in 1988 is another film of yours that catapulted you into the spotlight.

"Bull Durham" was great because it was the first part I wasn't overqualified for. It was a really great character, and even though it was Ron Shelton's first directorial debut, he had been dreaming on it for so long. It was just such a good script. It was the only script I've ever gotten where everything was just perfect, pretty much.

Kevin [Costner] was so generous. At that time, he was a huge star, and the studio didn't want Tim [Robbins] or me. But everybody else had turned it down, or Ron had asked people to read and a lot of actresses wouldn't read. I was living in Rome, and I had to fly myself back [to the US]. I had a small child, so I left that child.

I flew in, I read the entire script with Kevin, which was what Ron wanted, and other people just wouldn't do that. Then I got right back on the plane that afternoon to get back to my child and then got a phone call about a week later.

I just knew that it was such a special part that I humiliated myself and did it, and I'm very happy that I did.

Ron has spoken a bit about the legacy of that movie and how he had a hard time convincing the studio to cast you — that you weren't on their "list" at the time. How did it feel to face that sort of pushback at that point in your career?

These lists continue all the time, and they're all different depending on who's making them. It's not even if they think you're right for the part. If you have a small part and you're mediocre, but you're in a movie that makes $300 million, you go to the top of the list. These lists change and that's just the business.

I've been very lucky to get some parts that other people just turn down. I think there are people that have gotten parts that I've turned down. You can't take it too personally. This is the way the world works in our business.

It's very corporate now, even more. They look at how many followers you have and all kinds of things that have nothing to do with the creative process in order to cast movies now. Every now and then, some offbeat independent film pushes somebody into the spotlight, but they never saw it coming. Then that person gets some heat for a while and then you see if they can hold on. That's just showbiz, as they say.

On her 'give and take' with Ridley Scott over the 'Thelma & Louise' script

I didn't realize how much input you had on the script for "Thelma & Louise" and how Ridley Scott was game for it. Was there any pushback to the suggestions you had on set?

The script was kind of vague. [Ridley] doesn't care about the words that much. At one point I was like, "Can't we just get out of this car for some little grace note of something? There's so much dialogue at the end by the time they should be just ready."

There was that kind of give and take. It wasn't that I just didn't like something. It's more like, "How can I do this? Explain to me this particular thing. How would that work?" Or "Answer this question." I come with a lot of questions, not criticisms. I'm trying to figure out, how long are they on the road that they think going off a cliff's a good idea? How long isn't she sleeping for? What is her responsibility? Those kind of questions.

The only thing I said was I'm not interested in making a revenge film. I don't want to be Arnold Schwarzenegger or Mel Gibson. I think she's trying to figure out why men think this is a good idea to say these things and do these things. Men who have mothers, men who have sisters, why? That, as opposed to just trying to kill people and blow up trucks, for me, was what motivated my character.

It's not that I come in ready to criticize, I was just confused about what was going on: "Do we really need this at that point?"

I think that's what you do with every project you go through, to just try to understand the whole.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

"The Fabulous Four" is now in theaters.