Elections expert warns 'loyalty' to Trump 'stronger' than 'instinct for self-preservation'

Democracy Docket leader Marc Elias warned MSNBC viewers Monday night that Republicans have tried at multiple levels to decertify elections ahead of the 2024 general election, and that the GOP's loyalty to former President Donald Trump likely means those efforts are coming again.

Marc Elias, founder of the group, spoke with host Rachel Maddow and walked through his organization's efforts to protect elections.

Elias said that when Americans talk about who "won" an election, the conversation is actually about two things: the "unofficial results" announced on Election Day by sources such as The Associated Press and other news outlets, and then there are the "certified results."

These results, he noted, are first certified by the county and then at the state level. For presidential elections, the count goes to electors, with governors certifying results that are handed up to Congress.

"Jan. 6 was the culmination of a certification dispute," he explained, noting the dispute began in Michigan at the county level. "And when Republicans couldn't achieve what they wanted to at the county level, they went to the state level. When they couldn't achieve that, they launched a 'fake-electors scheme' which is just another way of undermining accurate certifications."

When that failed, he said, Republicans launched a series of lawsuits until finally, they attempted to block the certification of the election on Jan. 6.

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"So this has been on their radar for sometime and it will be on their radar screen for sure in 2024," he said.

Maddow pointed out that the GOP has planned and tried out decertification tactics dozens of times at the county elections board level and in "off-the-radar" municipal elections — tactics that were "unheard of" before 2020.

"The idea of tinkering with the certification at the local level was just out of bounds," Elias emphasized. "That is part of the pageantry of democracy. It is what makes us great as a country. That after a hard-fought election, the election officials celebrate the results by certifying these election results."

Elias said his group successfully sued Cochise County, Arizona, when Republicans refused to certify elections, and the people involved were indicted over the scheme.

"You might think that would serve as a deterrent for 2024 but as Donald Trump proved, the loyalty to his crimes and misdeeds is stronger than people's instinct for self-preservation," he said.

Watch the clip below or at this link.