Azerbaijan has obligation to Armenians, which it does not deny -Toivo Klaar

ArmInfo.Azerbaijan has an  obligation to Armenians, which it does not deny, Toivo Klaar, the EU  Special Representative for the South Caucasus and the crisis in  Georgia, stated  in an interview with JAMnews. 

On the developments between Armenia and Azerbaijan

How would you describe the developments between Armenia and  Azerbaijan over the past few years?

It has been a mixed picture. We have seen better moments, and I do  hope that we are living some of them now, but we have also seen a lot  of violence with many innocent victims.

The 44-day war in 2020, the various armed clashes and larger military  operations, the situation around the Lachin corridor, and not least  the mass exodus of the Karabakh Armenians in September 2023 were  among the most difficult situations I had to deal with.

I will always remember the exchanges I had with the victims of this  violence and the stories that I heard from those who faced similar  hardships in the 1990s.

At the same time we also have had more positive developments.

We have more dialogue now between Baku and Yerevan, which also the EU  has contributed to, I believe.  We have discussions aimed at  finalising a peace agreement.

It is my hope that with political will and continued effort by all  sides the page of enmity and violence can now finally be turned once  and for all, for the benefit of all the peoples of the region.

On the EU's mediation efforts between Armenia and Azerbaijan

How would you assess the EU's mediation efforts between Armenia and  Azerbaijan, particularly the so- called "Brussels Process"?

Before the 2020 war, the EU played a much less visible role. Our - my  - task was mainly to act in support of the efforts undertaken by the  main international format, the Minsk Group, and its co-chairs.

After the 2020 war the EU, mostly at the request of the parties  themselves, started to play a more prominent role, which culminated  with the series of high-level trilateral meetings between President  Michel, Azerbaijani President Aliyev and Armenian Prime Minister  Pashinyan.

I believe that these meetings - in addition to efforts undertaken by  other international actors - provided the two leaders with the  necessary space to reach some common understandings on the main  issues at stake: the peace treaty, border delimitation and  demarcation, the reopening of regional economic and transport links,  and humanitarian issues.

We had six meetings of the leaders in Brussels between 14 December  2021 and 15 July 2023, we had numerous high-level telephone  exchanges, and we organised meetings of the security advisors here.

Combined with my visits to Baku and Yerevan, and the wider region, I  believe that the EU helped create a certain framework, based on which  the leaders could give the Foreign Ministers, the Deputy Prime  Ministers and other key actors guidance, and steer for further  negotiations.

Over the past months, the bilateral track between Armenia and  Azerbaijan has managed to produce concrete positive outcomes.

The EU has welcomed all these developments, be it the 7 December 2023  joint statement on releases of detainees and COP29, or the more  recent agreements on border delimitation and demarcation of 19 April  2024, with their subsequent implementation.

The latter are based precisely on the common understandings that had  been reached earlier with our involvement, for instance on the  unambiguous acceptance of the 1991 Almaty Declaration as the basis  for the delimitation of the bilateral border.

Finally, even though we have seen more bilateral meetings recently,  the EU stands ready to again step in as a facilitator when requested  by the parties.

On the future peace agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan

Do you think the future peace treaty between Armenia and Azerbaijan  could be signed soon?

As far as I know, most of the draft peace treaty has already been  agreed upon. It seems to me that the only thing missing is the  political will needed to reach the finish line.

We have been encouraged by the latest intensive exchanges of drafts  and the recent trilateral meeting of the Foreign Ministers of Armenia  and Azerbaijan with U.S. Secretary of State Blinken in Washington DC  on 10 July 2024.

We firmly believe that achieving a final agreement on the remaining  issues and wording is within reach.

A peace treaty and its subsequent implementation would fundamentally  change the situation in the region. I believe the leaders also share  this view and will undertake all the efforts needed to reach a final  agreement on the matter.

However, the fact that they did not meet during the recent European  Political Community summit in the UK it is also a reminder how  fragile the process still is. It does not show lack of commitment by  either side, but illustrates well the sensitivities associated not  only with the substance, but also with the process of the  normalisation deliberations.

And if there is a peace agreement, what then?

This would be a great achievement. But agreements of course need to  be implemented and so a peace agreement will only be a waypoint  towards normalisation. In the end, peace is about people, and  normalisation of relations must mean normalisation at the societal  level.

Much of the peace process has been quite top-down, and what is  ultimately needed is a genuine opening, including through cross  border trade and connectivity of the region, and making peace and  stability feel normal for the populations on both sides.

But for this to be possible, peace building efforts need to include  confidence building and reconciliation between people to enable them  to make peace with each other. I have therefore always put a strong  focus in my work on confidence building, dialogue and reconciliation  efforts around the official negotiation processes, and the EU has  supported such activities for many years already, to promote an  environment conducive for real peace.

The international community will need to remain engaged both  politically and financially, also after the signature of a peace  agreement. But the onus, as now, will remain on the leaderships in  Yerevan and Baku to not stop half way, but to continue all the way  towards a full normalisation of relations, not only between  governments, but also between peoples.

On displaced Karabakh Armenians

What are your final thoughts on the displaced Karabakh Armenians now  in Armenia, many of whom still hope to return home one day?

Once again, I do hope that the page of enmity and violence can  finally be turned once and for all, for the benefit of all  populations in the region, including the Karabakh Armenians.

The EU has been very clear on the matter - and it is also my  expectation - that the Karabakh Armenians will be part of the  normalisation process and that there will be direct talks between  Baku and them about their safe and dignified return to their home  region.

Azerbaijan does have an obligation in this regard, which - as it  seems to me - it does not deny.

The parameters and conditions for such a future need to be found and  agreed through an inclusive and mutually respectful dialogue.  Normalisation to me means no open wounds, and therefore this issue  has to be part of the broader peace process.

Sometimes other issues are brought up in this context, such as the  question of so-called "Western Azerbaijan". For me, these are  completely distinct questions that cannot be mixed.

The first is the facilitation of the return of the Karabakh Armenians  to their ancestral homes, which is an obligation that Azerbaijan has.  The second is the question of Armenians who used to live in other  parts of Azerbaijan, including in Baku, or of Azerbaijanis who used  to live in Armenia.

Naturally they should also be able to visit the places where they or  their families have lived, or even to return there, if they so wish,  and this should likewise be a consequence of normalisation, but that  is a wholly different issue from the specific question of the  Karabakh Armenians.

On the prisoners and missing persons

Could you elaborate on the importance of humanitarian affairs for  lasting peace up to this point?

To me the entire normalisation process is about people and therefore  about humanitarian affairs. However, if you mean the specific  question of prisoners and missing persons, then these are of course  key elements as well.

One of the most moving experiences during my time as EUSR has been  the release of ten Armenian soldiers from Azerbaijani captivity at  the end of 2021. I felt honoured that the EU could assist at that  time and that I personally could accompany those former prisoners  when they were re-patriated from Baku to Yerevan on 19 December 2021.

I am deeply convinced that the release of all prisoners, good and  effective cooperation from all sides on the fate of missing persons  as well as on demining efforts are decisive elements for lasting  peace and for definitely turning the page of enmity and violence.

And it makes me personally sad that we still did not really manage to  advance further on those issues. I am certain that this will remain a  key issue for my successor.