Video: Dana White debates reporters over UFC pound-for-pound, Jon Jones vs. Stipe Miocic

LAS VEGAS – UFC CEO Dana White has vehemently defended two topics perhaps more than any others over the past year. The first, is who the pound-for-pound best fighter is right now. The second is that his answer to that question, Jon Jones, who he thinks should rightfully fight Stipe Miocic next.

Following Dana White’s Contender Series 69 on Tuesday at the UFC Apex, White engaged with reporters in a lengthy, back-and-forth discussion.

The debate was respectful but passionate, as White verbally traded with media members, mainly veteran reporters Kevin Iole and John Morgan.

Jones as pound-for-pound No. 1

The 12-plus-minute exchange began as White was about to wrap his post-event news conference. He was jokingly asked about Jones’ status as the “pound-for-pound GOAT.”

The argument is one that White has repeated his stance on increasingly in recent weeks. The frequency and enthusiasm has amused online commenters and meme-creators.

Iole asked, “Does he have pictures of you?” to which laughs came.

“Are you guys that f*cking stupid?” White laughed back. “You can’t be that f*cking stupid to think that Jon Jones is not the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world and the GOAT… but maybe you are?”

White stood up to leave but then sat back down to engage. Eleven more minutes of discussion took place thereafter.

“Question me,” White said. “Who’s better than Jon Jones? Who’s pound-for pound better than Jon Jones?”

Morgan jumped in and answered, “At what point does inactivity come into play, right? We all agree there is nobody better than Jon Jones. He is the greatest of all time. There’s no question about it. But at some point, when you’re looking at rankings, they do have to represent what’s happening in the organization at that moment, right at that time, and in the past three years, he’s had one fight.”

White’s answer to that question revolved around the inactivity not being a choice, but rather an injury, which Jones (27-1 MMA, 20-1 UFC) suffered weeks before an initial booking with Miocic (20-4 MMA, 14-4 UFC) scheduled for November 2023. Jones was out of action for three years when he returned to win heavyweight gold vs. Ciryl Gane in March 2023, and he hasn’t fought since. Meanwhile, Tom Aspinall (15-3 MMA, 8-1 UFC) has become interim heavyweight champion, even scoring a rare defense of that interim belt against Curtis Blaydes at UFC 304 in July.

“You talk about inactivity and that he’s only fought one time. Jon Jones was supposed to fight,” White said. “If Jon Jones was sitting on the couch saying, ‘I don’t know when I’m going to fight again,’ then he’s definitely not in the pound-for-pound discussion right now. He was scheduled to fight and he got injured. He’s an active fighter.”

White then brought up Islam Makhachev, the fighter many media members and fans think deserves the pound-for-pound designation. Makhachev (26-1 MMA, 20-1 UFC) has defended the UFC lightweight title three times, though two of those were against then-featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski, and one was a highly-debated decision. He is currently ranked No. 1 in the UFC’s official pound-for-pound rankings.

“Islam, many people believe, lost to the guy (Volkanovski) who’s a weight class below him,” White said. “Is that how pound-for-pound works?”

Jones vs. Stipe

White and Iole then went back-and-forth about the definition of “active” before the conversation pivoted to the booking between Jones and Miocic.

“Everyone in this room thinks Aspinall is more highly-rated than Stipe, at this point,” Iole said. “Stipe’s reputation is fantastic but he has not won a fight since he beat (Daniel Cormier) – in four years. That also plays into it as partially a factor when you have a guy like Aspinall knocking out Serghei Pavlovich in less than a minute, Curtis Blaydes in less than a minute, etc., etc.”

White said he didn’t disagree, but offered up a different stance and laid out an argument that’s crux was not wanting to disrespect Miocic, who missed out on the Jones fight in late 2023 not because of his own doing.

“Here’s the flip side to that,” White said. “What do I do? The guy who’s looked at as the greatest heavyweight in the UFC, right? This fight’s set up. Jon Jones gets hurt. It’s not his fault. He has to wait and go back into training camp again. He was training. So do I just yank it away from Stipe and say, ‘Hey, go f*ck yourself and sit on the sidelines for two more years’? If I did that you guys would be like, ‘Oh, you f*cking disrespected the greatest heavyweight ever,’ so would the f*cking fans. So I should just sh*t on Stipe because Jon got hurt, and not make the fight that he was already supposed to fight?'”

Iole rebutted that Miocic should’ve fought Aspinall in Jones’ absence, rather than sit and wait for the champion.

“This is the fight (Jones and Miocic) both want,” White said. “What do you do? You don’t show the guys their respect. I guarantee you this, if Stipe wins, Stipe is going to retire. This will be Stipe’s last fight. Are you the media telling me I should just tell Stipe to f*ck off and (say), ‘Good luck to you Stipe. Go ride off into the sunset and fight some fires and that’s a wrap for you, buddy,” because Jon got hurt?  Or do I show this guy the respect that I should show him and give them both the fight that they want? That’s the position I’m in.”

Unsurprisingly, no agreement was reached. White, with a smile, declared Jones’ status as the pound-for-pound best fighter once last time before he departed the table and was replaced by beaming UFC contract-earner Malcolm Wellmaker.

What’s next

Jones and Miocic are “targeted” to fight at UFC 309, an event Nov. 16 at Madison Square Garden in New York, White confirmed Tuesday. White said the lack of formal announcement by the promotion is due to its calendar not being filled out until that point.

Aspinall, the promotion’s interim titleholder, defended that championship at UFC 304 in July when he knocked out Curtis Blaydes. It’s unclear what his next competitive move is, though he’s upped his callouts of Jones in recent weeks, even creating skit videos in an attempt to angle for the fight.